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Friday, 23 October 2020

The bath was too SMALL at my London home for Prince Andrew to have romped in it with a young woman, Ghislaine Maxwell claims in bombshell court documents

 British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell denied claims Prince Andrew slept with Virginia Roberts while being questioned about his relationship with friend Jeffrey Epstein, newly-released transcripts revealed today.

The documents from April 2016 contain details of when the Duke of York is alleged to have had sex with Epstein's victim in London, something he strenuously denies.

Maxwell also claimed she did not recognise the infamous photograph of Andrew with his arm around the woman now known as Virginia Giuffre, despite Maxwell also being in the picture, which was taken at the socialite's home in London in 2011.

In addition, Maxwell rubbished Ms Guiffre's claims that she and Andrew had sex in the toilet and bedroom in Maxwell's townhouse, something the Duke denies.

She was questioned about the claim during the interview, but told how the bathtub at her home was too small for any sexual activity.  

She said of Ms Giuffre: 'She claimed things took place in my bathroom in London. Her characterization is just not possible. 

'The tub is too small for any type of activity whatsoever.'

Maxwell also said: 'What I'm representing is that her entire ludicrous and absurd story of what took place in my house is an obvious lie.'  

The bombshell interview transcript also reveals discussions about a dinner with Ms Giuffre, Epstein and a third person whose name is redacted. 

Andrew and Virginia Roberts (centre) at the home of Ghislaine Maxwell (right) in London, 2001

Andrew and Virginia Roberts (centre) at the home of Ghislaine Maxwell (right) in London, 2001

Ghislaine Maxwell is awaiting trial in the US after being charged with procuring teenage girls for Epstein (pictured together in New York in 2005) to abuse. She denies the charges

Ghislaine Maxwell is awaiting trial in the US after being charged with procuring teenage girls for Epstein (pictured together in New York in 2005) to abuse. She denies the charges

Above, scroll through full transcript of the Maxwell interview in New York on April 22, 2016 

Page 235 to 236 includes a claim from Maxwell that her bathtub was too small to have sex in

Page 235 to 236 includes a claim from Maxwell that her bathtub was too small to have sex in

It also refers to a blanked-out guest in Maxwell's London townhouse, but widespread previous reports suggest the person being referred to in both cases in Andrew. 

The transcript also reveals Maxwell was questioned over claims that someone was accused of using a Spitting Image puppet of a person to grope Ms Giuffre.  

Again, Andrew is not mentioned by name, but widespread press reports have previously identified him as being the man whom the puppet was depicting.

There is also discussion of the interior of Maxwell's home, as seen in the photo of Andrew and Ms Giuffre, and reference to a banister with a 'sort of bubble wood top'. 

And there is a further reference to a man, again unidentified but believed to be Andrew, who Maxwell said 'doesn't even know who Virginia Roberts is'.

She was also asked about claims that a man, thought to be Andrew, visited Epstein's private island Little St James in the US Virgin Islands - dubbed 'paedophile island'.

Maxwell was asked if she was ever aware of him visiting the island, replying: 'I am aware of that yes.' She was also asked 'Were you present on the island when (name redacted) visited?' - and replied 'yes'. 


'It'd be difficult to have sex with someone you don't know' 

Maxwell appeared to be questioned about the infamous picture of Andrew with his arm around Ms Giuffre next to Maxwell, taken at her London home in 2001.

She said during the interview that she was 'not sure if that's a real picture or not', but would not say if she had discussed the image with someone, believed to be Andrew. 

Maxwell was asked in the interview: 'Did he tell you that he didn't have sex with her?' And she replied: 'It would be difficult to have sex with someone you don't know.'

She added: 'I think the inference is he didn't know who she was, he didn't have any recollection of her whatsoever.' 

Asked if someone, believed to be Andrew, had 'ever' come to her home in London, Maxwell replied: 'Yes. Ever being the entire time I lived there, yes.'

On page 232, there is a reference to a man, unidentified but believed to be Andrew, who Maxwell said 'doesn't even know who Virginia Roberts is'. Maxwell was asked in the interview: 'Did he tell you that he didn't have sex with her.' And she replied: 'It would be difficult to have sex with someone you don't know'

On page 232, there is a reference to a man, unidentified but believed to be Andrew, who Maxwell said 'doesn't even know who Virginia Roberts is'. Maxwell was asked in the interview: 'Did he tell you that he didn't have sex with her.' And she replied: 'It would be difficult to have sex with someone you don't know'

Andrew 'never said to me he had sex with Virginia Giuffre'

Maxwell was asked multiple times about what is believed to be the picture of Andrew with Ms Giuffre, then Virginia Roberts, taken at her London townhouse in 2001.

She insisted she did not know who took the picture, and stood firm when asked if it was Epstein, saying: 'I just testified I don't know who took the picture.'

Maxwell was also asked if someone, believed to be Andrew, 'ever tell you that he had sex with Virginia Roberts.' She replied: 'He did not'.

Asked whether Epstein ever told her that someone, believed to be Andrew, had sex with Ms Giuffre, she replied: 'He did not.'

Pages 114 to 115 involve discussion about a photograph believed to be the one of Prince Andrew with his arm around Virginia Roberts at Ghislaine Maxwell's townhouse in London

Pages 114 to 115 involve discussion about a photograph believed to be the one of Prince Andrew with his arm around Virginia Roberts at Ghislaine Maxwell's townhouse in London

Was Virginia Giuffre groped with a Spitting Image puppet?

Also during the interview, Maxwell was questioned over suggestions that a man had allegedly used a Spitting Image puppet of himself to grope Ms Giuffre.

Andrew was not mentioned by name, but widespread press reports have previously identified him as being the man whom the puppet was depicting. 

Maxwell was asked if she put the hand of the 'caricature' on the breast of a woman, thought to be Ms Giuffre.

She replied: 'I don't recollect. I recollect the puppet but I don't recollect anything around the puppet.'

Pages 289 to 290 of transcript reveal Maxwell was questioned over claims that a man was accused of using a Spitting Image puppet of himself to grope Virginia Roberts

Pages 289 to 290 of transcript reveal Maxwell was questioned over claims that a man was accused of using a Spitting Image puppet of himself to grope Virginia Roberts

Maxwell says Andrew dubbed Ms Giuffre a 'liar' in call

Maxwell was questioned about a conversation she had with a man, believed to be Andrew, after receiving an email in January 2015.

Asked what they talked about, she said: 'Just what a liar she is' - in reference to Ms Giuffre.

Maxwell added: 'I don't think he told me why she was a liar. The substance of everything that she said was a lie with regard to him.'

Last December a BBC Panorama investigation found Andrew had sent an email to Maxwell at 5.50am to let her know he had 'specific questions' about Ms Giuffre.

Pages 399 to 400 see Maxwell questioned about a conversation with a man, believed to be Andrew

Pages 399 to 400 see Maxwell questioned about a conversation with a man, believed to be Andrew

Maxwell, who was Epstein's ex-girlfriend, was combative and defensive under the tough questioning four years ago about her his interactions with underage girls.

She repeatedly denied hiring anyone under the age of 18 for Epstein, who killed himself in a New York jail in August 2019 while awaiting a sex trafficking trial.

Manhattan US District judge Loretta A Preska had ordered the transcripts of seven hours of depositions of Maxwell be released by 9am local time today (2pm UK time).

'I never saw any inappropriate underage activities with Jeffrey ever,' Maxwell said.

Ms Preska allowed the release of the transcripts after rejecting arguments from Maxwell's lawyers that the interviews for a defamation case brought against their client by an Epstein victim several years ago would jeopardise a fair criminal trial for her next July.

Maxwell, 58, has been held without bail since her July arrest on charges that she procured three underage girls for Epstein to sexually abuse between 1994 and 1997. She has pleaded not guilty. 

The 2016 transcripts were among more than 2,000 pages of documents that began to be released last year after an appeals court began the unsealing of documents from the since-settled defamation case brought in 2015 by Ms Giuffre.

She said Maxwell recruited her at age 17 to be sexually abused from 1999 to 2002.

Andrew spoke to the BBC's Emily Maitlis for a Newsnight interview in November last year

Andrew spoke to the BBC's Emily Maitlis for a Newsnight interview in November last year

Ms Giuffre has accused Epstein of arranging for her to have sexual encounters with numerous wealthy and influential men, including Prince Andrew.

He and the other men have denied her allegations. In the transcripts, Maxwell repeatedly derided Ms Giuffre, saying: 'She has lied repeatedly.'

She said she 'never instructed Virginia to have sex with anybody, ever'.

Asked if she trained Ms Giuffre to recruit other women to perform sexual massages, Maxwell said: 'It's absurd and her entire story is one giant tissue of lies.'

Maxwell admitted she had an intimate relationship with Epstein in the deposition released today, but refused to discuss their sex life.

The 418-page document was released after Maxwell's attorneys fought tooth and nail to keep the deposition private. 

Over the course of the heated deposition, Maxwell repeatedly lashed out against Ms Giuffre's lawyers, tried to object to questioning and at one point pounded her fist on the table. After, she said: 'Can we be clear, I didn't threaten anybody.'

She refused to answer questions about her sex life with Epstein, denied she participated in orgies and rebuffed questions about underage girls, including a 13-year-old, being in Epstein's home.

She became agitated and refused to answer a question of whether she believed it is psychologically harmful for an adult to have sex with a minor.

'What are you asking me? I don't know what you are asking,' Maxwell responded. 'This has nothing to do with Virginia Roberts.'

Prince Andrew is photographed with the disgraced Epstein in New York's Central Park in 2010

Prince Andrew is photographed with the disgraced Epstein in New York's Central Park in 2010 

She denied taking nude photos of Epstein's victims, insisting that every photo she took was by request and would have been 'mainstream type magazine photos' that 'could have been very happily and expected to be displayed on your parents' mantel piece or grandparents' mantel piece'.

President Bill Clinton and Andrew were also brought up during the conversation, with Maxwell profusely denying Mr Clinton had been to Epstein's 'pedo' island.  

New York prosecutors claim she perjured herself in her deposition, when she was asked if Epstein had 'a scheme to recruit underage girls for sexual massages'.

Maxwell flatly said: 'I don't know what you are talking about.'

Over the course of the lengthy videotaped deposition, Maxwell refused to answer a majority of the questions pertaining to her own sexual activity, as well as Epstein's.

When asked if Epstein had a 'sexual preference for underage minors', Maxwell responded: 'I cannot tell you what Jeffrey's story is. I'm not able to.'

Maxwell denied ever seeing massage therapists performing sexual acts for Epstein, saying: 'I have never seen anybody have sexual intercourse with with Jeffrey, ever.'

But when pressed to answer the question if she had seen sexual acts being performed for Epstein by masseuses, Maxwell said: 'I'm not addressing any questions about consensual adult sex.

Maxwell and Epstein pose at the Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Florida, in February 2000

Maxwell and Epstein pose at the Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Florida, in February 2000

'If you want to talk about what the subject matter, which is defamation and lying, Virginia Roberts, that you and Virginia Roberts are participating in perpetrating her lies, I'm happy to address those.

'I never saw any inappropriate underage activities with Jeffrey ever.'

Maxwell attempted to 'move on' from the line of questioning, sparking an angry response from Ms Giuffre's lawyer, who said: ' I'm in charge of the deposition. I say when we move on and when we don't.

'You are here to respond to my questions. If you are refusing to answer the court will bring you back for another deposition to answer these questions. Do you understand that?

She also admitted to her relationship with Epstein, but suggested there was a gray area, responding when asked if she ever considered herself his girlfriend: 'That's a tricky question.

'There were times when I would have liked to think of myself as his girlfriend. '

The well-coached Maxwell was cagey throughout and claimed she couldn't recall events and interactions from even five years ago.

When asked if she had latex sex costumes or a laundry basket of sex toys in Epstein's Palm Beach mansion, Maxwell denied it. 

Maxwell's lawyer objected to lines of questioning frequently, at one point advising his client not to answer if she'd ever engaged in sex with a woman.

The disgraced British socialite took several opportunities to bash Ms Giuffre, saying at one point she is an 'awful fantasist' who created a 'tissue of lies'.

Ghislaine Maxwell allegedly topless in Epstein wall art
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Maxwell lashed out after being asked if calling a sexual abuse victim a liar is harmful.

She ranted: 'I would like to say all the terrible things Virginia Roberts said about me is extremely harmful and you should turn that around. All the lies she has said and you have backed her on have been extremely damaging to me'.

Maxwell did admit that she encouraged girls to perform massages because, she said, they'd earn more money and that it was 'career advice', but denied ever having 'non-consensual sex' with anyone.

She said: 'I was always happy to give career advice to people and I think that becoming somebody in the healthcare profession, either exercise instructor or nutritionist or professional massage therapist is an excellent job opportunity.

'To be able to travel and have a job that pays that is a wonderful job opportunity. So in the context of advising people for opportunities for work, it is possible that I would have said that she should explore that.'

She also claimed she had never been in the room with Virginia when Epstein was receiving a massage from her or any other girl 'under the age of 18'.

At one stage, she was asked if she'd ever seen Epstein around young girls, to which she replied: 'I have friends who have children.'

Maxwell – who dated Epstein in the 1990s – refused to answer when asked if he liked having his nipples pinched, saying she would not discuss any of their sex life.

She defended her work for him, later saying her salary was under $500,000 (£380,000).

Maxwell said: 'There were six homes. As I sit here, I hired assistants, I hired architects, I hired decorators, I hired cooks, I hired cleaners, I hired gardeners, I hired pool people, I hired pilots, I hired all sorts of people.

'In the course and a very small part of my job was from time to time to find adult professional massage therapists for Jeffrey.

Andrew (second left) has said he became friends with Jeffrey Epstein (right) in 1999, after being introduced to him through Ghislaine Maxwell. Pictured: Melania Trump, Andrew, Epstein's friend Gwendolyn Beck and Epstein at a party at the Mar-a-Lago in Florida in 2000

Andrew (second left) has said he became friends with Jeffrey Epstein (right) in 1999, after being introduced to him through Ghislaine Maxwell. Pictured: Melania Trump, Andrew, Epstein's friend Gwendolyn Beck and Epstein at a party at the Mar-a-Lago in Florida in 2000

'From time to time I would visit professional spas, I would receive a massage and if the massage was good I would ask that man or woman if they did home visits.'

Maxwell said she continued to be friends with Epstein even after his plea deal in 2006 for prostitution charges, because she is a 'very loyal person' and because Epstein was 'a very good to me when my father passed away.

She added: ' I believe that you need to be a good friend in people's hour of need and I felt that it was a very thoughtful, nice thing for me to do to help in very limited fashion which was helping if he had any issue with his homes, in terms of the staffing issues.

'It was very, very minor but I felt it was thoughtful in somebody's hour of need.'

She routinely denied raping Virginia or any other person, saying: 'I have never had non-consensual sex with anybody. I just testified I never had non-consensual sex with anybody, ever , at any time, any place, at any time, with anybody.'

When asked if she'd 'trained' Virginia on how to perform sexual massages, she replied: ''No and it's absurd and her entire story is one giant tissue of lies and furthermore, she herself has- if she says that - you have to ask her about what she did.'

She later added: 'I never ever at any single time at any point ever at all participated in anything with Virginia and Jeffrey.

'And for the record, she is an absolute total liar and you all know she lied on multiple things and that is just one other disgusting thing.'

Maxwell admitted to visiting a university with the goal of recruiting employees for Epstein. While she said she couldn't recall which university it was, she said she visited it twice.

The deposition was redacted in parts, with sections indicating that names of Prince Andrew, Victoria's Secret boss Les Wexner and some mentions of the Clintons were redacted.

Maxwell appears via videolink for an arraignment hearing at Manhattan Federal Court in July

Maxwell appears via videolink for an arraignment hearing at Manhattan Federal Court in July

Maxwell's lawyers have previously said releasing the deposition would prejudice her right to a fair trial.

In their ruling the judges said that 'we cannot conclude that the district court abused its discretion in ordering the unsealing of the deposition materials'.

The ruling said: 'The District Court correctly held that the deposition materials are judicial documents to which the presumption of public access attaches and did not abuse its discretion in rejecting Maxwell's meritless arguments that her interests superseded the presumption of access.

'The District Court's order articulated and applied the correct legal framework in its individualized review of the materials to be unsealed'.

The deposition stems from Ms Giuffre's defamation case against the former British socialite.

She is an Epstein victim who claims she was forced to have sex with Andrew, allegations he denies, and that Maxwell groomed her.

Maxwell settled the defamation case in 2017 but media organisations applied to have the documents in the case made public and they are being released on a rolling basis.

Ms Giuffre's lawyer David Boies said he was 'pleased' with the judges' decision.

He said: 'It is an important step towards vindicating the public interest in understanding the scope and scale of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking ring and the efforts made to conceal it'.

Maxwell is being held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, New York City

Maxwell is being held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, New York City

Mr Boies was one of the lawyers who took the deposition in 2016 which led to two perjury charges for which Maxwell is also accused.

The ruling is the latest legal setback against Maxwell, who was arrested in July and is seen by many of Epstein's victims as his right hand woman.

During a hearing last week Maxwell's attorney Adam Mueller said that the release of a document so central to one of prosecutors' six charges in her criminal case could prejudice a jury.

Mueller said that the deposition 'should never have been filed' to the case and the arguments for releasing it 'don't pass muster'.

Epstein was 66 when he killed himself in jail in Manhattan in August 2019 as he awaited trial on sex trafficking charges.  

Andrew stepped down from royal public life in November following a disastrous BBC Newsnight interview, which had led to criticism of a lack of empathy for Epstein's victims and a lack of remorse over his friendship with the convicted sex offender. 

The Duke and his legal team are involved in negotiations with the US authorities over their requests for him to give a witness statement about his friendship with Epstein.

The Duke is rarely seen in public now, but was pictured in April helping his ex-wife Sarah, Duchess of York pack cupcakes into gift bags to donate to a Windsor hospice. 

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